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home > discussion group > June 23 - 28, 1999

ITE Traffic Incident Management E-mail Discussion Group Digest #10

June 23 to June 28, 1999

This digest contains the following messages:

#1. RE: TIM - Closure of Highways for Crash Investigations - from
O'Laughlin, John B.
#2. TIM: RE: TIM - Closure of Highways for Crash Investigations -Reply -
from
Helman, David
#8. Preliminary Announcement: TOC Leadership Issues Meeting - from Wilks, Tobasha
#9. Preliminary Announcement - from Wilks, Tobasha
#10. Re: TIM: Preliminary Announcement - from Juanita Lowe
#11. RE: TIM: Preliminary Announcement - from
Chuck Manuel - MCDOTX
#12. TIM Committee Help Needed to ID Resources - from Chuck Miller

Disclaimer:  Topics that do not pertain to Traffic Incident Management have been omitted from the discussion group digests to save the reader time when reviewing messages, and to save space on the web server.   See Discussion Group Etiquette for examples of other reasons a message may have been omitted from a digest.


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#1. RE: TIM - Closure of Highways for Crash Investigations - from 
O'Laughlin, John B.
Top
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:50:40 -0400
From: "O'Laughlin, John B." <OLAUGHLIN@pbworld.com>
Subject: RE: TIM - Closure of Highways for Crash Investigations

Sorry I was out of the loop when this got generated.  Lots of good information and comments.  I do want to comment on "Total Station." I challenge you to look into the actual use and time taken for these  systems, I used and supervised the use of Total Station (TS) at  accidents scenes for 9 years until I retired 4 years ago.  I am of the  strong opinion, which is shared by a large number of police  managers and DOT managers, that they do not save time.   They do allow for better diagrams.

Here's why:

* First responders wait for them to arrive which can take up to or over an hour.  
* The TS user must survey the scene to see what to measure.
* TS takes 20 minutes to set up.
* Investigators now measure far more points than they used to which takes time.  
* Users that aren't experienced, take longer that older methods.  I have witnessed them reading the operations manual for TS while the road is blocked!!

What's better?  
* "Passive laser systems" need one operator, set up in 5 minutes, are more versatile, and cheaper.

What's Best?
"Photogrammetry".  Takes measurements from 35mm, digital, or  video. Easy to use, inexpensive and flexible.  Check out WEB site http://www.jps.net/measure/  I am involved in this effort because it works!! we have done night scenes, day scenes, in house crimes  etc.  Being used on a test or limited basis in Oregon, California,  Washington and Arizona that I know of.  Fairly new and  will take time to spread, but, I personally guarantee, in the right  hands, it will work.  
 

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#2. TIM: RE: TIM - Closure of Highways for Crash Investigations -Reply -
from Helman, David
Top
Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:15:41 -0400
From: "Helman, David <FHWA>" <David.Helman@fhwa.dot.gov>
Subject: TIM: RE: TIM - Closure of Highways for Crash Investigations -
Reply

I agree with John.  The temptation with Total Stations, since measurement is fast, is to take many more measurements.  Washington State Patrol used to say "twice as many measurements in half the time". I guess I would say what's wrong with "the same measurements in one-fourth the time"?  If you didn't need them before, why do you need them now?  (Ans...better documented scene, but how well does it need to be documented?)  There have been problems in a number of states, with one or two units available, of getting the TS to the crash site.  Why should you have to wait for an hour or two for the TS to arrive when you could be measuring by another method.  The operators of the TS also need to stay current on the equipment to use it efficiently.  If you use it once a month, then you will have operators at the scene reading the manual.  If you have trained accident investigation teams on call 24/7 who use the equipment daily and who can get  to the scene fast (under a half-hour), then the TS is a good advancement over the hand measurement method. 

I have talked with police officers who use the laser system and they think it's faster than TS and easier to use.  But, like John, I also think the photogrammetric method will provide the real breakthrough for getting accurate measurements quickly and safely.  And the "safely" part is not just for the investigating officer.  It's also for the thousands of people caught for hours in the backup behind a major closure.  Another issue in incident management that's changing is that while liability for pushing stuff off the road was always more perceived than real, liability for serious secondary collisions behind lengthy closures is very real as some states are beginning to find out.  The photogrammetric method is under active testing and investigation in several locations.  Early indications are that the police seem to be enthusiastic.

Top

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#8. Preliminary Announcement: TOC Leadership Issues Meeting - from 
Wilks, Tobasha
Top
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:42:41 -0500
From: "Wilks, Tobasha" <tobasha.wilks@dot.state.wi.us>
Subject: Preliminary Announcement:  TOC Leadership Issues Meeting

This conference is intended to provide the opportunity for Peer Networking, and Sharing Knowledge and Experience. The  participants included Active Mangers and Technical Leaders in TOC's & TMC's.  If you have any questions contact Ron Sonntag at: (414)288-5734 or email: sonntagr@vms.csd.mu.edu or John Corbin:  (414) 227-2150, email: john.corbin@dot.state.wi.us
Thank you.

 <<Leadership Mtg Preliminary Announcemnt.doc>> 


Tobasha R. Wilks, Administrative Assistant
633 W. Wisconsin Avenue
Suite 1200
Milwaukee, WI 53203-1907
(414) 227-2156
tobasha.wilks@dot.state.wi.us

Top

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#9. Preliminary Announcement - from Wilks, Tobasha
Top
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:51:14 -0500
From: "Wilks, Tobasha" <tobasha.wilks@dot.state.wi.us>
Subject: Preliminary Announcement


PRELIMINARY ANNOUNCEMENT
TRAFFIC OPERATIONS CENTER (TOC) LEADERSHIP ISSUES
Intended for
Management & Technical Leaders

OBJECTIVE: This conference is intended to provide the opportunity for Peer Networking, and Sharing Knowledge and Experience.  Participants include Active Managers and Technical Leaders in TOC's & TMC's

SPONSORS: Wisconsin Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, Marquette University Center for Highway & Traffic Engineering, Institute of Transportation Engineers (ITE) - Traffic Incident Management Committee and ITE TOC/TMC Users Group

WHERE: Marquette University, Weasler Auditorium, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (conveniently located in downtown Milwaukee)

WHEN: Thursday, July 22, 1999

TIME: 9 am to 4 pm

PROGRAM CONTENT:

  • Operations & Maintenance (O&M) Issues - (Planning, Staffing & Budget)

  • Overview: Walter Kraft, PB Faradyne, Inc. Panel Discussion

  • Operations & Management Center (TOC/TMC) - ITE Users Group

  • Overview: Jay Obenberger, WisDOT, District 1 ITS Engineer

  • Discussion: Conference Participants

  • User Group Needs -Chat Group, List Server, Weekly Topical Discussions

    Database (contact names, activities, Policy guidelines, etc.) 

  • Interagency Coordination - Cross agency boundaries

  • Overview:  Joe McDermott, McDermott &Assoc. 

  • Information Sharing

  • Integrating Operations

  • Incident Management

  • Privatization Overview: Walter Kraft, PB Farradyne, Inc.

  • TOC Operations

  • Maintenance

  • Project Management & Participation

CONTACT FOR RESERVATIONS: Tobasha Wilks, Wisconsin DOT
Phone: (414) a227-2166
E-mail:  tobasha.wilks@dot.state.wi.us

HOTEL ACCOMMODATIONS AND DIRECTIONS PROVIDED UPON REQUEST AND WITH
RESERVATIONS


Tobasha R. Wilks, Administrative Assistant
633 W. Wisconsin Avenue
Suite 1200
Milwaukee, WI 53203-1907
(414) 227-2156
tobasha.wilks@dot.state.wi.us

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#10. Re: TIM: Preliminary Announcement - from Juanita Lowe
Top
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:11:31 -0500
From: "Juanita Lowe" <Juanita@ksdot.org>
Subject: Re: TIM: Preliminary Announcement

I am with the Kansas DOT and we are in the process of building, staffing, etc of our TOC in conjunction with the Missouri DOT.  Do you feel this meeting would be of any benefit to us?  Please let me know as soon as possible so we can make arrangements.   Juanita@KSDOT.org  Thanks

-------------------- 11 --------------------

#11. RE: TIM: Preliminary Announcement - from
Chuck Manuel - MCDOTX
Top
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:46:10 -0700
From: Chuck Manuel - MCDOTX <ChuckManuel@mail.maricopa.gov>
Subject: RE: TIM: Preliminary Announcement

Juanita, I have 26 years experience with Phoenix Fire Dept. as a captain, paramedic & haz mat technician.  Now I work part time for Maricopa County Dept. of Transportation & recently completed the MDI AZTech project with the AZDOT.  So I come with advice from both of the table (public safety & transportation).  Your folks should attend & also begin to learn the language and terminology of public safety agencies (police, fire, ems, haz mat).  Most public safety agencies also don't know what we do in transportation.  You should extend a hand to local agencies and create a partnership for future incidents.  You both will work together so you should get off on the right foot..let me know if you would further info or just have questions.

Thanks...
chuck manuel
emergency management services coordinator
maricopa county DOT
602-506-4612
602-506-8758 fax

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#12. TIM Committee Help Needed to ID Resources - from Chuck Miller
Top
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:54:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chuck Miller <cmiller@vuse.vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: TIM Committee Help Needed to ID Resources


TIM COMMITTEE HELP NEEDED!

As Bruce Churchill mentioned during the June 22 teleconference, we are beginning to develop a list of knowledgeable practitioner from the domain of incident management.  This resource list will be used internally by the TIM Committee in development of Key Issues and Practices Series (KIPS) events and other initiatives.  Any person suggested as a possible resource or any volunteers will be formally contacted in order to brief them on the objectives of the KIPS project and their expected role.  

Potential resource persons will also be asked whether they are willing to act as a resource for the KIPS project.  We are looking for persons with expertise spanning the wide gamut of incident management.

Please provide us as much contact information as possible and the person's area(s) of incident management related expertise.  To limit the annoyance to other Committee members, please email information on suggested knowledgeable practitioners directly to me at cmiller@mailhost.vuse.vanderbilt.edu or you can send a fax to the number listed below.

Thank you for your assistance.

Chuck Miller

***********************************************
Charles A. Miller, Ph.D., P.E., AICP
Vanderbilt University
Box 1625, Station B
Nashville, Tennessee  37235
Phone: (615) 322-0430
Fax: (615) 322-3365
Email: cmiller@mailhost.vuse.vanderbilt.edu
**********************************************

 

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